Harrogate Bowling

says something like

Any player who has played more than 50% of their games for one division can not drop further than one club team from that division

I think this means that players who have played more than 50% in one division can:

1, if a club has two teams in one division they can go down to a team in a lower division but only to the next lowest team

2, If a club does not have a team in a division they can drop down to the highest team below them

Need clarrification as it affects team selection and if the above is not correct then I think the rule needs rewording
Surely the spirit of the rule is to allow non starred players to go to a lower division but only one down if they are regulars in a division other than division 5

Thanks

Any league player who has played more than 50% of their games in one division cannot play more than one club team down from that division

I did seek clarification on this rule from the Executive and a previous long standing member of the Executive.

The spirit of the rule was to ensure that once a player had played more than 50% of their games, they could not drop down more than one club team. This was to prevent the loading of lower title challenging teams that had occured in the past.

This was the manner in which the rule was adopted by the previous Fixture Secretary and therefore the manner I have continued with this season.

I believe your clubs situation is a bit of a rareity, in that your 3rd team is actually performing and competing better than your 2nd team. When players are dropped you are therefore looking at them playing for your 4th team rather than 3rd team. The rule has never really been contended as the natural order has been to drop players down to then next team.

I do intend however to raise the rule at the AGM and open it up to all members. Either a slight rewording may be required, or I simply change the way in which I have applied the rule ( and humbly stand corrected ).

Thanks

IanK

Fully support your decision Ian you took on the job and therefore your decision is final

However I think the spirit of the rule is that players should be able to drop a division

Can I suggest re wording as follows

Where a player has played more than [INSERT NUMBER could be percentage of possible or a fixed number] games in a season and more than 50% of those games are in a division or higher that player can only drop down one division or to the next team in their club which ever is lower

Ian is quite correct the rule was brought in to stop clubs abusing situations where a non starred player could be in the first team as a regular but drop down to a third team when it suited to help with promotion issues. As Ian has said against the spirit. Rules are not always perfect but brought in for a situation and need tweaking from time to time to make things work better. As was eluded to your situation at Dragon is strange as your 3rd team appear stronger than your second team always a problem when you have two teams in the same division. The club need to re-think their situation with allocation of players based on league performance and decide which is the strongest team for next season. however if your second team picked the clubs strongest available players based on form you wouldn't have a problem
subject to starred players of course.

If you wish to amend a rule then your club needs to send in a proposal prior to the next meeting.

As Ian has said Chris its the spirit of the game and the rule which is most important in his determination of how to interpret the rules something Ian has done well this year.

S

ChrisB wrote:Where a player has played more than [INSERT NUMBER could be percentage of possible or a fixed number] games in a season and more than 50% of those games are in a division or higher that player can only drop down one division or to the next team in their club which ever is lower

Chris, have a re-read of your recommendation, does it still make sense to you?

Just proves it can oftern be very difficult to write a rule that is clear to everyone who reads it without leaving open too many 'interpretations'.....

IanK wrote:

ChrisB wrote:Where a player has played more than [INSERT NUMBER could be percentage of possible or a fixed number] games in a season and more than 50% of those games are in a division or higher that player can only drop down one division or to the next team in their club which ever is lower

Chris, have a re-read of your recommendation, does it still make sense to you?

Just proves it can oftern be very difficult to write a rule that is clear to everyone who reads it without leaving open too many 'interpretations'.....

It does still make sense although I know what it means

I added the bit about a minimum number of games because if a 3rd team player played in the 1st team to help out in week 1 they can't go back to the 3rd team the next week

I have put numbers in to make it easier to check!

I added the bit about division or higher so it covers players who have played in more than one team but this could go as it isn't in the old rule

Is this better?

Where a player has played more than 4 games in a season and more than 50% of those games are in one club team that player can only drop down one division from that team or to the next club team which ever is lower

Aramis wrote:As Ian has said Chris its the spirit of the game and the rule which is most important in his determination of how to interpret the rules something Ian has done well this year.

S

I have spoken to Ian direct and told him I do not have a problem with the way he interprets rules, he has the job he is welcome to it and he is doing it well as far as I am concerned.

That doesn't mean I won't disagree.

I think the spirit of the rule was to allow players to drop a division and it made allowances where this was not possible for players to drop two divisions
I think it needs re wording so it allows players to drop a division and no more.

Relying on the spirit of the law is not as good as getting the wording right and reducing the need for interpretation

I originally thought that games in a higher division should be counted but dropped that bit

I have played more than 50% of my games in 1 and 2 but not 1 or 2 because I have played in the 3rd as well so I can drop from 2nd to any team!!

Ian can you tell me if the interpretation of this rule has changed?

Can we now drop a division or do we have to drop down to the next team in 2009?

Thanks

Haven't read all of it but it any wording can't be based on dropping only one division - clubs could have a team in div 1, 3 and 5 etc. So must be based on dropping down the clubs teams based on performance.

As Aramis states if your third team is performing better than the second team then the players in the third team shoud be selected up to the second team and it would sort itself out ??

Aramis' comments were made last year our third and second teams are reasonably matched this year IMHO but that is another thing altogether.

I was not suggesting that droping down should be limited to one division what I was asking was is it limited to one team?

The problem with only dropping one team is that if you need to drop because you are getting beaten then you need to drop out of the division to a lower division not play in the same division for a different team and still get beat possibly by the same player(s)

I understand that this was discussed at the AGM but wanted to get it from the horses mouth (no offence Ian)

Hi Chris,

The rule is quoted below. The key is the 'club' team. The division's are irrelevant.

Quite simply, any player who has played more than 50% of their games for one team, can only play one club team down.

(1st team drop to 2nd team, 2nd team drop to 3rd team, 3rd to 4th and so forth).



j) Any league player who has played more than 50% of his games in one division cannot play more than one club team down.

Thanks

IanK

Thanks Ian much appreciated I wasn't sure if it had been amended as there was some discussion last season about the spirit and interpretation.

Don't mind what it says just wanted to know

Thanks